Random thoughts from an unusual company

Sametime 8.5 - Beware Install Documentation Confusion

Gabriella Davis  2 March 2010 12:59:20
Time to share another Sametime 8.5 install experience with you in the hope it saves you some time doing your own.  Last week I was doing an install for a customer where we wanted the following configuration (all on Linux)

Box 1  Sametime Community Server on Domino
Box 2  DB2 9.5 Server
Box 3  Sametime 8.5 including SSC, Proxy, Media Manager and Meeting Server

The install order for Sametime 8.5 in that circumstance would be
  • DB2
  • SSC
  • Domino
  • Community Server
  • Proxy Server
  • Media Manager
  • Meeting Server

Since the SSC is the first WAS component to be installed, it always installs in its own Cell profile which means it has its own deployment manager and node agent.  If you also install the other servers (Proxy, Media and Meeting) in their own Cell profiles on the same server they also have their own deployment manager and node agent - but why would you do that when you can use the deployment manager you already have in place for the SSC?  In fact the documentation here  (Sametime 8.5 Install Guide Pt 1 Page 102) specifically says

"Choose the configuration type.
Select the profile type for this installation, and then click Next:
Pilot use: Select Cell Profile.
Production use:
Add this server to the Sametime System Console cell by selecting the appropriate Network Deployment option.
v        First server of this type: Select Network Deployment - Primary Node. v        Additional server of this type: Select Network Deployment - Secondary Node.
If you will use the Lotus Sametime System Console as the Deployment Manager for a Lotus Sametime Proxy Server cluster, there is no need to install a Lotus Sametime Proxy Server with the Deployment Manager option.'

So I'm not running a 'pilot', I'm running production and I want to use the SSC deployment manager - I choose "Network Deployment - Primary Node" - right?  WRONG.  If you do that then the install will just 'stall' about 90% in - same with Media Manager or Meeting Server.  After about 10 days troubleshooting with IBM support it turns out that "Production" means "Installing each component on a separate box" whereas "Pilot" means "Installing everything on one box". The only possible way to install all WAS components on one box as many, many, many people want to is to install each one in its own cell profile, generating a separate deployment manager and node agent for each - a total of 6 additional unnecessary servers.

IBM have raised a SPR to update the documentation and explain that you can only use the SSC deployment manager and install into primary nodes if you use a different box for each application.  That takes me from the 1 server I had originally in Sametime 8.0.2 , through the 3 servers I wanted to have for Sametime 8.5 (but which IBM considers 'pilot') to the minimum 6 servers required for production!  However it does answer another question people have asked me about why, if the SSC is meant to manage all servers, can you not see the other servers in the admin interface when logging into the SSC.  The answer is that if you install all the servers on one box , each in its own cell profile and so each with its own deployment manager and generating 8 separate Profile folders and 13 running servers; each is then managing its own configuration through its own admin interface

SSC on https://:8701/ibm/console
Media Manager on  https://:8801/ibm/console
Proxy Server on  https://:8601/ibm/console
Meeting Server on https://:8501/ibm/console

So the current installation documentation should read:

"If you're planning to install multiple components onto the same server you must use the cell profile option when creating the deployment plans.  The Network Deployment - Primary Node option is only applicable if you are installing each component onto a separate server"

I hope that helps

Comments

1Ulrich Krause  02/03/2010 14:03:52  Sametime 8.5 - Beware Install Documentation Confusion

Thanks for this. Spent the last weekend just to install DB2, SSC, and Meeting Server on a Win2003 (VM) Machine for testing.

Tried to do another installation on a physical machine running SLES 10 but failed on installing DB2 as the installation finished with errors.

One question: It took about 3 hour just to install SSC and another 5 hour to install Meeting server on Win2003. Is this normal?? I mean, there are some 2GB or so to install ... I ran the setup program, verified connection to LDAP and DB2 and the installer continued ...

2Tim Lorge  02/03/2010 15:07:55  Sametime 8.5 - Beware Install Documentation Confusion

WOW ... I don't even know where to begin with this except MAJOR fail from IBM on Sametime 8.5.

3Patrick Picard  02/03/2010 16:05:13  Sametime 8.5 - Beware Install Documentation Confusion

Sametime 8.5 hardware requirements are looking like the requirements of OCS... too many servers!

4Ben Williams  03/03/2010 12:44:39  Sametime 8.5 - Beware Install Documentation Confusion

I understand the concerns people have with regards to the amount of servers this can use up but if you don't want the java-less client you don't need to, if you don't want the media manager, you don't need to and stick with your normal Sametime/Domino server and use the the normal Meeting Room Client which has been used for years and years.

This gives companies options and many more features. Of course, you can do all this on a few boxes or you don't have to and stick with what you have but upgrade.

I have been using Sametime 8.5 and it works, yes it's a bit bigger and maybe that will only be of benefit for those slightly larger companies but at least now you have more choice.

5Gabriella Davis  03/03/2010 16:27:02  Sametime 8.5 - Beware Install Documentation Confusion

@Ben - So your point is that you don't need to bother using the proxy or the media manager or the meeting server - so you don't need to upgrade then? The choice is 'upgrade or don't' as there is no Domino based alternative for the no client download for instance and the codecs in the meeting server and the meeting server itself under Domino are many many years out of date using technologies that other companies long left behind. The fact is that the meeting center under Domino hasn't been competitive with modern conferencing products such as Webex for years and that's why they developed the WAS alternative and stopped updating the Domino version. In fact the Domino version is only left there for 'backwards compatability' with no guarantee it will stay there or be supported going forward.

Small businesses need a web conferencing solution - currently IBM thinks that should be Unyte and maybe they are right. I have to believe they have a goal of fixing their deployment and enabling the WAS components to install better on a single box and that's what I'm betting on.

Gab

6Ben Williams  03/03/2010 16:52:04  Sametime 8.5 - Beware Install Documentation Confusion

Gab,

Good point made, maybe I am walking the IBM line too much and hoping that this product delivers on what people have been asking of it for some time?

It is a beast but are IBM pitching this at small companies? The tools provided would benefit a company of any size but my belief is that this is focused more towards larger companies who should be better placed to handle the additional servers and technolgy and as you say those who do not want to install 3+ servers can go with Unyte. This way IBM can cover the SMB and enterprise customers.

7Carl Tyler  03/03/2010 20:46:23  Sametime 8.5 - Beware Install Documentation Confusion

@6 Ben there were small companies using Sametime on Domino. This release makes it hard for those companies to stay with Domino and Sametime.

8Rupert Kiero-Watson  04/03/2010 11:14:01  Sametime 8.5 - Beware Install Documentation Confusion

Most of my customers are small, to offer them a 3+ server install seems a bit much.

Can someone explain this model in an SMB marketplace, I can't, even with VMware and Linux, the management overhead alone.

Ok they may not need Media server - although how we can compete when Skype and Yahoo have free audio and video, and we say yes 3+ servers and their licences.

These are the people who will grow into the big boys of the future, and if we lose them as customers now, we can't expect them to be our customers in the future.

9Sabu Kurian  08/11/2010 07:02:50  Sametime 8.5 - Beware Install Documentation Confusion

I had been trying to install sametime 8.5.1 in a VMware environment. Installation plan was as follows. Media Manager and Proxy on the host machine, the DB2 SSC and Meeting in a VM and the Community Server and Domino in a VM too. I was following the "

From Zero to Hero" presentation from lotusknows.com. Everything went fine till the installation of Meeting Server. It is failing with an error "Error executing configurationwasprofiles.bat" I am not familiar with the Websphere configurations and donot have any clue where to troubleshoot. Can anyone please help?

10Ray  12/05/2011 09:27:46  Sametime 8.5 - Beware Install Documentation Confusion

Wait till you install this beast on an AS/400, sorry, iSeries, sorry, IBM i, whatever. It has taken me weeks to get through prereqs and installing code. The only documentation is on an @#$%^&&& infocenter. Not a nice experience at all.

11Amit  14/09/2011 14:53:33  Sametime 8.5.1 Media Manager

I have installed Sametime 8.5.1 Media Manager on RHEL 5.5 and verified that the installation was successful using URL { Link }

After that I have restarted Linux after the restart the Sametime 8.5.1 Media Manager is not coming up.

What things i need start so that my media manager is up and running?

12carlo goddard  14/03/2016 02:27:39  Sametime 8.5 - Beware Install Documentation Confusion

Great writing - For my two cents , people require a Family Group Sheet , my wife filled out and esigned a sample document here https://goo.gl/RYLpDU.