Random thoughts from an unusual company

Notes 8.5.3 and Embedded Sametime - A Warning

Gabriella Davis  13 September 2011 16:15:37
A quick heads up for the forthcoming Notes 8.5.3 release due October 4th.  Up until now the embedded Sametime client has been version 8.0.2, which meant you couldn't benefit from many of the new Sametime features including the new rich meeting client.  The good news is that Notes 8.5.3 will have an upgraded Sametime client embedded in the install but the very bad news is that this version will only be Sametime 8.5.1 not Sametime 8.5.2.

If you are deploying Sametime 8.5.2 servers and want to deploy Sametime clients to work against those servers, especially using audio or video, you must still upgrade the embedded Sametime to Sametime 8.5.2.  A Sametime 8.5.1 client will not work for audio and video against Sametime 8.5.2 servers.  If you aren't deploying any audio or video then the Sametime 8.5.1 client may well suffice for your needs.

I suspect a combination of time and overlapping developments led to the mismatch but you will be entitled to download the 8.5.2 upgrade package for your embedded clients.


1Matthias  13/09/2011 20:08:06  Notes 8.5.3 and Embedded Sametime - A Warning

Not really or?

Is it the same like this one --> { Link }

2Gabriella Davis  13/09/2011 20:15:12  Notes 8.5.3 and Embedded Sametime - A Warning

@Matthias. No, not the same. The 8.5 and 8.5.1 clients can't audio with 8.0.2 and earlier because of the introduction of the Media Manager but 8.5.2 changed the behaviour and audio and video once more to include the TURN functionality. So 8.5 and 8.5.1 clients can talk. 8.0.2 clients can talk. 8.5.2 clients can only talk to other 8.5.2 clients.

3Christer Eklundh  13/09/2011 21:21:06  Notes 8.5.3 and Embedded Sametime - A Warning

What about using a Sametime 8.5.2 client against a Sametime 8.5.1 server? I have a customer with a Sametime 8.5.1 server environment. They will soon upgrade to Windows 7/Notes 8.5.3. They have the possibility to upgrade the embedded Sametime client to 8.5.2 in this new Windows 7/Notes 8.5.3 rollout. This can save them time and money IF they in the future decides to upgrade Sametime server environment to 8.5.2.

4Gab Davis  13/09/2011 22:20:24  Notes 8.5.3 and Embedded Sametime - A Warning

@Christer - the audio / video against 8.5.1 servers should work on the same network and the same subnet as the Media Server (I need to test) because that traffic will be peer to peer but because the technology used by the Media Manager changed on the 8.5.2 server to accommodate the use of a reflector amongst other things the audio / video won't work outside of that specific network. I would not recommend trying to deploy 8.5.2 clients against 8.5.1 servers.

5Lars Berntrop-Bos  14/09/2011 08:41:28  Notes 8.5.3 and Embedded Sametime - A Warning

Quite silly to make Sametime versions so incompatible with each other. I guess we are spolit with Domino and Notes clients being able to talk to each other across a wide set of versions, but still. I cannot see this helping adoption of Sametime.

6TK  14/09/2011 08:55:30  Notes 8.5.3 and Embedded Sametime - A Warning

Is it another issue than the one described in this technote (https://www-304.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg21498898)?

7Christer Eklundh  14/09/2011 09:21:47  Notes 8.5.3 and Embedded Sametime - A Warning

It's possible to upgrade the embedded Sametime client i Notes 8.5.3 install package so then you install Notes 8.5.3 you get embedded Sametime 8.5.2 without the need to upgrade Sametime after Notes 8.5.3 is installed.

Use these instructions: { Link }

8Gab Davis  14/09/2011 13:57:53  Notes 8.5.3 and Embedded Sametime - A Warning

@6 - it's a different issue I'm afraid. It's related to the introduction of a reflector (STUN/TURN server) with 8.5.2

@7 yes you can always build an installer that includes both updated ST and updated Notes but I would do those consecutively not concurrently personally.

9Matthias Ratz  14/09/2011 15:52:25  Notes 8.5.3 and Embedded Sametime - A Warning

Which product manager has approved this? He should be a member of one of our trainings and should explain that to our users.

I would like to see that company who is able to install the client and the server at the same time to make it run on 2.500 clients.

I can not really understand IBM and what they are doing. It seems that different development teams are not talking to each other.

10Gabriella Davis  14/09/2011 17:37:33  Notes 8.5.3 and Embedded Sametime - A Warning

@9 well it is two entirely different development teams - if not more. Domino server, Notes client and Sametime. Sametime is also far more than its integrated version in Notes which isn't the majority of its deployments so I think it's simply a case of each development group pursuing the objectives for their own products and running out of time for additional testing cycles. It may have come down to "do we ship with 8.5.1 ST or delay Notes 8.5.3 until we can test with 8.5.2 ST even though that may be another 2 months". I don't know if that was the discussion but I wouldn't be surprised and I know most Notes houses would prefer them to do what they have done and ship with 8.5.1.

11Michael Kobrowski  15/09/2011 14:54:34  Notes 8.5.3 and Embedded Sametime - A Warning

I guess Chris Millers predictions about no-more-sametime clients in the future and it all being a widget/website/etc would make things easier between versions, and easier to roll out.... if it doesn't loose functionality...

12Gab Davis  15/09/2011 15:37:43  Notes 8.5.3 and Embedded Sametime - A Warning

@Michael I honestly don't think so. Maintaining multiple browser clients, version, security restrictions, caches... No thanks :-) And the browser interface is a long way from feature parity. I wouldn't hold your breath awaiting that.

13Werner Motzet  18/09/2011 05:47:30  Notes 8.5.3 and Embedded Sametime - A Warning

thx for this important infos.

shows the technot swg21498898 https://www-304.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg21498898 the same problem? What do you think about the workarounds ("Resolving the problem"), the technote gives.

Hope to see you at AdminCamp.

Kind Regards


14Jacob A  27/09/2011 11:15:18  Notes 8.5.3 and Embedded Sametime - A Warning

Thank you for that! Explained a lot of our issues and questions that it has taken like forever to get the support to sort out for us... But agree with "Matthias Ratz" about the Product manager, please come out and explain how this is supposed to be manageable for a company like ours (1000 users)... Especially since a wrong version just like other errors on the server itself immediately creates ugly error messages on the client...

Question: Would you say that a recommended way is to skip the interaction between Notes and Sametime and go for a standalone installation?

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